Why Attention To Detail Can Make Or Break Your Business, with Andrew Pattinson | The Growth Booth #38

Welcome to Episode 38 of The Growth Booth where today we're going to talk about why attention to detail can make or break your business. I’m joined by a good friend, a business partner and someone who happens to be the CEO of Float Hosting. His name is Andrew Pattinson. 

AIDAN

Andrew, thank you so much for taking some time out of your day there to join us on the show.

ANDREW

My pleasure, it's great to be here.

AIDAN

Just to give people a little bit of background, before becoming the CEO of Float Hosting, you were part of our Blueprint Academy membership, which we've spoken about on this show sometimes, and even prior to that, you were involved in corporate, involved in taking a private company public. You've obviously got an entrepreneurial streak as well because in your own time, you built a thriving community of over 150,000 members. Lots and lots of interesting things here that we could sort of draw on, lots of experience that we could tap into.

Coming back to what I wanted to talk about today - which is why attention to detail can really make or break a business – or not just a business, but any project. Why is this something that's important? What is it that you think the detail is important, and why is it something that people should spend some time thinking about?

ANDREW

Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's a great question, because  I think everyone sees a business, they've got a great product, and that's exactly why they're successful, but for me, what I found through that journey was that, actually, it's the application of the detail and actually allowing yourself to be drawn to the things that make the difference, and focusing on those can really move the dial, not only in terms of making the business able to survive in the longer term, but also making sure that you'd make a better profit from it. My boss used to say, “It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep.” A lot of these things in your attention to detail can really make a difference in what actually ends up in your bank account versus just bleeds away into the ether or to other people's pockets. These things that we're going to talk about today, I think a lot of them really can help not only make sure your business is sustainable but also make sure it's more profitable as well.

AIDAN

Something that I keep coming back to over and over again is this idea of deliberate practice. But you can only take deliberate practice in the seeking of improvement if you know specifically what you're trying to improve. So I guess, if you're thinking about this from the very beginning, first of all, you need to have some kind of an objective, because otherwise all the practice in the world, all the focus on detail, I mean, if you're focusing on the wrong details, then you're going to be steering the ship in the wrong direction.

ANDREW

Totally. Absolutely. I think that we had a business that really achieved some radical things, and it went from being loss-making to being almost a billion-dollar market capital in three years. But it was really the six or seven years before those three years that actually made the difference. We applied a number of things to that business from literally working out of a garage to being this public business. I guess, if you'd like, I've picked out sort of five things that, maybe not that obvious when you look at the business, that I felt were really fundamentally transformational in that business. They were really based around detail as opposed to things that you maybe saw on the surface or people externally saw in that business.

AIDAN

I think that'd be awesome to get into. I think there's one other thing that is really fascinating about your story, that company that you're talking about mentioned there. I mean, you literally came in on the ground level. Could you share that story a little bit, just to give some people a little bit more idea of your background and how you literally came in on the ground level and sort of rose all the way up to being an integral player there?

ANDREW

Yeah, so yeah, I literally worked from the ground floor. I was actually cleaning the building. That's how I actually started that. I've been backpacking. I've worked for one of the big banks here in Australia, I went away, did the European backpacking thing as so many Aussies do, and then came back and I was working for a friend of mine who had a cleaning business. And one of the businesses I was cleaning just happened to be this business I’d never heard of. It was just these strange people I saw walking around the building at different times of day and night. And you know, I ended up getting to know the founder because I was cleaning his office at night and he was always there at 10 o'clock at night, at whatever time I was doing it, and we got chatting, and after a few days he said, “So what do you do?” And I said, “Well, looking for a job, just doing this as a fill in,” and he said, “Come and work for me.” And I said, “Okay,” and I had no idea what he did.

The next day, I turned up with a bucket and mop in my hand wearing a pair of shorts and a T-shirt. And he was sitting at the desk in his office with the other owners of the business at the time. And they fired about three or four questions at me, said “Okay, come back later, and I'll tell you whether you got the job.” And I did. And I did get the job!

AIDAN

What did you end up doing there?

ANDREW

Initially I was just taking orders over the phone. They at the time were a distributor of products that were in the desktop publishing business, which at the time was just emerging as a new industry. We were distributors for people like Adobe, who I think most people would have heard of nowadays. We were distributors for Pixar and a few other brands that at the time were very small at the time but became very large.

I guess my journey started with cleaning, and my final role with the business was actually the CEO of the public business. I did pretty much everything else in between along the way. I think the only department I didn't work in that business over the 20-odd years I was there was the finance team. It was literally an immersion in that business over many years.

AIDAN

Yeah, you've told me about some bits and pieces of that story in the past, and I think it's just awesome how, one way or another, I don't think these things would have happened by chance. You were in a position, the right place at the right time. But then you really took that to the next level and ended up being the CEO of this absolutely massive, massive company. Awesome.

Anyway, I wanted to get that background, because I want people to understand a bit of context around the lessons that you're going to be sharing with people here today. These are not things that someone has just sort of thought of in a few minutes, these are lessons that ANDREW has picked up through a journey of over 20 years working and building a very, very successful business. Where do we start? What are these areas that are sort of identified?

ANDREW

Well, like everything, I just start with a really simple one. There's one thing today, which is like, this was something that my boss taught to me very early in the piece. And it seems ridiculously simple and I share it with people in different stages of coaching with people and I've mentored people in the business, and it's the one thing I always start with, and they sort of look at you strangely and say, “Is that really a thing?” It's like, just clean up your desk. It sounds so weird and so simple, but actually, it works so well in terms of just clearing your mind to be able to be focused on your business.

We had very, very rudimental business premises when we started. But what we did was we went through and we cleaned everything out, and we painted the walls, so we spent $50 on paint and painted the walls. And it was amazing, once you had this clean workspace, how much better you applied yourself to the work because there wasn't all of this noise and everything else around you. It was so simple.

It became part of our culture that on Friday afternoons, everyone would wipe their desk down and clear all the rubbish out or make sure that no boxes are sitting in the hallways and all those types of things. I think it sounds so simple, but yet it actually paid so many dividends over the years. I think the great thing about it is it's something that people could start while listening to your podcast. It's not something you have to plan for years, you can just start and do it. For me, that's transformational, and I say it’s really played a big part in the business, as simple as it sounds. That's really good.

AIDAN

I think it's a great example of one of these micro habits that can almost be a gateway to other little micro habits, and when you start adding, layering these things one on top of the other, the gains can be much greater than just a simple habit itself. There’s a similar saying that you may have heard, I'm sure our many listeners will have heard about, “Just make your bed in the morning.” And there's something that I've really sort of lived by and I love to be able to make my bed in the morning and start with that clean slate each day.

Speaking about my desk, if you could look at it at the moment, it's literally got one thing on it which is a just a little remote control here, which is for some lighting I've got around me, but I've got this nice big open space on my desk and I feel like it's almost an extension of my mindset. I don't have this clutter coming down on me. I'm absolutely a big believer in that, and like you said it's something that is a pretty easy win to get.

ANDREW

Absolutely. Anyone could do it at any time. I think sometimes like if I'm having a day where I think like, “Well, I feel a bit overwhelmed,” oftentimes I'll look around and go “Well, I've got some stuff around me.” And I'll just clear that away. And it's amazing, the way it just calms you and makes you feel ready to go.

AIDAN

I'm sure there are some people listening to this, just thinking, “Oh, my God, my desk is so cluttered, but that's just the way I am.” Yeah, so I think there are different personality types here, but…

ANDREW

I tend towards hoarding, so my desk can get that way, but I still make the effort to make sure it's cleared away. And I say, notice the difference. As I've shown before, I'm in the process of moving, and I feel sort of a bit anxious because I've got these stuff in boxes and everything at the moment around and it is a real thing. Once you've got that habit of cleaning, it makes a big difference. That's why.

AIDAN

This one, a really easy win you can take away here. What else have you got there?

ANDREW

The second one was that very early in the piece, while we were still losing a lot of money, we have this community hall across the road from where our building was, and pretty much all the staff other than some of the casuals who were there went across and went through this process, and we decided that our business would be one that was built to last like a 100+ years business.

We all sat around, and we talked about what the implications of that were. And it was amazing that once we decided that, that that decision – it flowed through the 20+ years that I was there. It made it such a grounding place to be where we could make decisions and really plan as if this is a business that's going to be around for 100+ years. Now I know that's probably not what everyone else is thinking. Some people may have a business that they want to have for five years, it doesn't really matter what your end goal is, it was just the fact that we decided this is what we're going to be. We put a flag in the sand, and everyone on that desk had these little five things about our business, and one of them was we're going to be around for a long time. It's amazing when it came to making decisions how it really provided clarity when sometimes it was a little bit unclear what direction we should go with.

At one stage, we actually rejected a company that probably everyone listening to his podcast would know as a client, because we felt they weren't in line with our ability to be in business for a long time, like it would have been a short-term cash grab. But we thought it would compromise our ability to be sustainable in the long term because it would have meant we couldn't do other things. And you know, that was for me a really, really great example where having that flag in the sand gave us a guiding principle. Instead of being probably a $10 million business, this became almost a billion-dollar business that was around that decision that we made that we were going to be around for a long time. These are the types of decisions we're going to make.

AIDAN

I think it's always valuable to look through your business or your life through a longer lens in terms of time because that allows you to really think bigger and also to see things in perspective. When you're looking at a personal goal or a vision for your family or your business over a one-year period, you're pretty limited. But when you start thinking about a much longer time window, it really does open up a lot of opportunities there.

I think when you spend some time thinking about who you want to become on a personal level, or whom you want your business to become, what are the characteristics, the personalities, and so on and so forth of your business, then it allows you to make what may otherwise be some challenging decisions very, very simple. Because like you said,  when you knew what the guiding star was, the direction that your business was hitting, you could say ‘no’ to a client that otherwise may have been quite difficult to say no to.

I think we can come back to this with some examples a little bit later. Like, I want to talk to you about some of the things we're doing differently at Float Hosting, for example. I think there are some clear tie-ins there where we're pointing towards a very specific customer. To be honest, we don't care about the rest of the customers. We'll come back to that in a little bit. And I know you’ve got a couple more points here…

ANDREW

Absolutely. Sure. I guess the next one is I think I've heard you talk about this a lot Aidan, and I know it's something that is  very, very much talked about, but it's really getting those standard operating procedures in place. When we first started, we had very limited resources, and we did everything by adding more hours to the day. I guess what happened was that we – for one particular client who was transformational in our business – we got to the point where literally, to get the product out the door, I was in the building for more than 24 hours, one day a month. And when you hit that 24-hour point, you suddenly realize, there's no more to give, like, we can't just keep on adding time to this equation. We've run out of capacity –  and we did that for over a year.

But what we started to do was put the processes in place, and again, to start with a very simple, but over time, they became more complex. As we're able to fund them better, we started to do some automation, and then we started to grow. If we dial forward 20 years, our production team was the same size when we were doing five products as it was when we were doing more than 100 products a month 20 years later because we got good at documenting simply. It wasn't like reams of paper, it was simple ‘Loom’ videos and the like that just walk people through this process. We built in some automation. 

We didn't start with a perfect system that we, I guess, probably had towards the end. We started with what we could afford to do and what we could, what we could have time to do, and it fundamentally transformed that business. And the profitability, as I said, having the same number of people creating five products as creating 100 products, well, you can just imagine that what that does to your profit margin. It’s significant.

AIDAN

Yeah, and one of the questions that I often come back to ask myself is, how would I do this if I wasn't here? Or if I had to take myself out of this equation somehow, what would this look like? When I ask myself that question around any activity in my life or in my business, it always leads me to finding a process or a system of some kind that I can put in place and really eliminate myself. This is something that I go through iterative approaches with all the time in all different areas of my life and my business. I think as a good starting point: ‘how would you do that if you had to remove yourself?’.

There are lots of things you can do. I mean, you can look to hire people, I mean, it's really throwing more hours at it. That's one solution. You can look at tools and solutions around automation. Just the way that you can make standard operating procedures is also very simple. Nowadays, you can just do a Loom video. Loom is a free tool that you can get on your browser, and you can use it to record screenshots and screen captures of what you're doing. Whenever I'm trying to teach someone how to do something or create one of these standard operating procedures, my basic process is: first I do it myself, and then I record myself doing it on a Loom video, for example, and I share that with the person that I want to be able to do it with. Then we do it. First by myself, and then we do it together. And then the third step is that I completely hand it off, and the other person does it for me. I do it, we do it, you do it. That's the kind of process when I'm trying to hand off a task to someone else. But like I said, there are lots of different ways that you can get help here. Absolutely.

ANDREW

And the beauty of that is that you can do the task as you're doing it and record. It doesn't look like you need to spend time creating processes, you just do it as you're doing it. And if it changes, then you just do a new video. And it's such a lightweight way of doing it that anyone can do. It doesn't matter whether you have a business of one person or a million people. It really works well.

AIDAN

I think it's always good just to really hammer this point home, just always ask yourself the question, “How could you eliminate yourself from the process? What would it look like if you weren't there? How could you build a standard operating procedure and really sort of turn it into a procedure?” Most things that you're doing will have lots of little steps that might be repeated over and over again, anytime you find yourself doing something over and over again, in your business, it could be the monthly accounting, it could be replying to a certain type of email, then that is a really easy thing that you could start turning into a process and ultimately either having a machine doing it for you in an automated fashion or having someone else do it for you.

ANDREW

Absolutely. There's nothing quite like that time when you think “Okay, this is just happening. I don't have to touch it anymore.” Like that gives you such a warm glow inside.

AIDAN

Yeah, I love it. I love it, especially when I can find a tool to do it. It's great being able to hand a process off to someone else, and that's great, makes a lot of sense, but if I can find a tool that automates it for me, then that to me is the holy grail. So absolutely keep an eye out for…

ANDREW

Absolutely, that's fundamentally what we did, and that's how we managed to retain the same number of people doing the same number of things. We just built our own tools to make it automated and integrate some others as well. It was really a great peace of mind as well, knowing things just got done.

AIDAN

Yeah, good stuff. Anything else?

ANDREW

Yeah. There are two others that I'll just quickly go through. The first one was that when you start out with things, it’s making conscious decisions and really planning things out. To give you a really good example of that is that as I said, we had lots of products, but one of the things that we did in the very early days was decided that rather than just when we got a new client, we would just sort of create another iteration of the product, we actually worked hard on building products together. 

We represented automakers. We have products for Ford, Toyota and Nissan and others, and rather than having a different disk for everything, we would actually just create one disk, because it was all disk-based, not on the cloud at that stage. That was something that none of our competitors did. But you know, a long time down the track, we actually looked at acquiring one of our competitors who got in a little bit of trouble. When we looked at their catalog, our team was probably about 65 people in our development team; their team was about 250 people doing pretty much the same thing. That decision upfront, just having a little bit of planning upfront before we dived into just recreating a product every time like they were doing, that was the difference it makes.

Again, think about the difference to your bottom line, and also the management of it, and how much real estate you need to house all those people, and all of the added costs that go with it. And that's why our business was highly profitable compared to theirs and why they got in trouble. And it was one of the reasons, just that you know, but that was a decision we made upfront, which took us probably a few days to decide to do and to plan. But ultimately, the payoff was massive, just because we took that little bit of time upfront.

AIDAN

I think, anytime I've ever taken time out to try to get out of the operations, get out of the trenches, and actually sort of see the whole panorama of what's going on in my business from a higher level, a higher perspective, it's always paid off in dividends. Sometimes it's those small decisions, those strategic decisions about doing something a smarter way that you don't always notice the first day, but over a period of time, they compound on themselves. One day, you might wake up and you've got a team of 250 people because you're doing something in an incredibly inefficient way, or you might wake up and you've got a very lean operation with 50 people, and the capacity is enormous. I think that's a really important one as well.

ANDREW

Yeah, absolutely. And then the last one, just quickly, is that, I guess, is knowing yourself, like knowing what you want from your business. Because certain times when it came to make a decision around what we're going to do next year, we needed a tool. It's very easy to fall into the trap of going with the tool, which is the one that's got the best advertising budget, because that's what everyone uses. People say, “Oh, we should use that, because that's what everyone uses,” but is that tool right for you?

So many times, we made very critical decisions about what technology we're going to use. One great example, we used a very, very widely known piece of software, which was a terrible mistake. Because once we got into the thing, because we hadn't researched it properly, they at renewal time really tried to screw us up with pricing. Next, they were going to try and put our price up by like 100%, and then when we sell our we'll just cancel, we're going to go to another product is how well we were going to take basically, they now basically said that “We own all your data, and we're going to keep all of that.”

Now, fortunately, we had deep pockets and a good lawyer and managed to get out of that, but it could have been a pretty ugly situation. And that was because we didn't put in and invest enough time upfront to really look at whether that was the right tool for us. We often think about all of these decisions that we make that seem inconsequential, or “We'll just choose a CRM” or “We’ll just choose a provider here” or to flex a great example like, “Why would you choose Float over somebody else” but making sure that you make the right decision based on the product that's right for you as opposed to what's just generally out there. And who's got the biggest advertising budget to promote. He is really, really critical.

AIDAN

I think it's easy to fall into that trap of selecting the most obvious or sometimes the biggest player in the market. One example I can give specifically related to this podcast is the software that we use to film these podcasts. When we were starting out at the very beginning of 2022, when the first episodes were filmed, we looked at a whole range of different solutions. Now, I've got one of the highest-grade Zoom accounts. We pay thousands and thousands of dollars a month for a Zoom account, which we use for different parts of our business. And that's fine and it does a good job for what we're using it for, but it turns out it's really not ideal for filming video and filming audio in a high-definition way, like what I want to be able to achieve with filming for this podcast.

We ended up finding a solution which is similar to Zoom, but it is a specialist piece of software for podcast users. I'll give you one, one little example to hammer this point home, when we're filming the video on Zoom, what Zoom does is it films that sort of record in the cloud. And if someone's got a bad internet connection or something like this, then the video quality is not going to be that great. The software that I use for this podcast, which is by the way called Riverside.fm, actually records the video and the audio on the local computer or the local device that each person is sitting on. If I've got bad internet or something, that's not going to degrade the quality of my video. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. But it's a specialist solution designed to give me what I need.

And I think the same thing is true. Maybe this is a good way that we can start talking about some of the different things that we're doing with Float Hosting. Over the years and the world of hosting, I've tried so many different hosting providers, and ultimately got to the point where I just felt like I was a number and I wasn't getting the kind of solution that I wanted, even though sometimes I would be paying a significant amount of money thinking I was on an extra special plan - it just wasn't working. Any examples that you can think of or think about, things that someone might want to consider in something like hosting that you think probably everyone listening to this will be able to relate to?

ANDREW

It’s a great question. Because why would you choose FloatHosting.com over, say, one of the big competitors? I guess the thing that we really pride ourselves on is a couple of things. One is that we really have a great WordPress hosting environment. It's really set up for the people, like the people who are probably listening today, this entrepreneurial audience, it was really designed to be specific for entrepreneurs, by entrepreneurs  knowing what they need in terms of the rapid landing pages. We can spend all this time sweating over whether we got the right funnel and have our copywriting done a great job and all those types of things, but if your page doesn't load fast and it's not secure, all of that work just goes away, or at least it's tolerated at the very minimum.

It's really that we've designed a system or an environment that helps to bring out the best and the things that you do well so you can focus on doing your entrepreneurial duties, getting your copy right, getting your funnels right, getting all these things beautifully prepared, so that when they are in front of your audience, they're presented in the best light that fast and you don't have to worry about hackers getting in there and destroying it as well. It really is a fast secure system.

And also, we do the heavy lifting for you. We will transition your WordPress site from somewhere else if you want to do that, or we need to do that, or we can set it up from scratch. We've got people there to help and a great support team who will do anything to help you along the path if you do hit any issues. It really takes the load off you as the entrepreneur and allows you to really focus on the things that you do best, and we'll do the things that we do best.

AIDAN

Yeah, you mentioned WordPress, which is something that we put a lot of time and energy into making sure that Float Hosting is high-performance hosting for WordPress, but it's not just WordPress, it's really any kind of website at all. I think that if you can nail WordPress, which is a pretty complex beast of a platform, then the rest of the static pages and so forth are pretty easy.

One example that came to mind when you were talking about some of these core fundamentals things you'd have to get right as well, and a lot of my listeners know that I do a lot with property investment, and with a lot of investment properties around the world. And when I'm thinking about renting them out, I can always try to rent it for a much higher, very top-dollar in the market. That might be great. They might achieve top-dollar in the market. But when you lose money from an investment property is when it's not rented. If I'm charging top dollar, but it takes me one month to rent it, versus charging 10% less but having it rented 100% of the time without any downtime at all, I'd rather charge 10% less and have it rented every single time. It's just like a fundamental principle. 

I think with online businesses, you need to make sure that you don't run into these security issues because  a couple of days down with a security issue, that could be something that's absolutely disastrous. It could completely derail your business. Because who knows? If you're running paid traffic or something, and you've got someone hack your website, you could get your account banned. It could be a little issue like that, which some hosting companies might sort of just brush off, but it’s not actually a trivial issue.

Website speed – it's just a basic necessity that your website needs to be fast, the basic necessity that you need to have uptime because anytime your website isn't loading or not loading fast enough, you're leaving money on the table. I think, understanding what is really, really important to an entrepreneur, here's someone who's building an online business versus the local flower shop that’s selling flowers in the street, they probably don't lose much business if their website goes down for 10 minutes or even a day. They probably won't lose anything. But if you're running an online business, where you get traffic coming in, especially if you're paying for that traffic, then it is absolutely mission critical that these core fundamentals, these core building blocks, are rock solid and not going to let you down. I think that's something that's important to me, anyway.

ANDREW

Absolutely. In the business I was in, we were basically -  our tools, like a cash register for auto dealers - we used to count things in milliseconds and so speed was ultimate. That's the same with a lot of online entrepreneurs. We know that if someone comes onto your landing page or your offer and it's slow to load, they get out. And so those are the things that can change your conversion rates significantly. If you can get that right, get the speed right, and make sure that no one takes it in the meantime as well, that's a great benefit as well. But if you’ve got that speed right, then you can really make a difference in your conversions without doing any more, without getting your funnel any better, it just optimizes what you've already done.

AIDAN

Yeah, I think I'm tying this back to what we've spoken a lot about here today - just understanding the details that are important from our perspective by providing hosting. We've got at the forefront of our minds every single day these details that are important to us, like website speed, security, uptime, and so on and so forth. And these are our guiding lights, if you like. From an entrepreneur's point of view, is website hosting something that they should be stressing about? Is it something they should be spending a lot of time on? Is it something that they should hand over to someone else? What's your take on all that?

ANDREW

Yeah, definitely. I think we can give them peace of mind, and focus on the things that they do well. They're entrepreneurs. They got into business to be selling more widgets or more services or professional tools, etc. And if we can give them all that time back and we just take care of the technical stuff in the background, you don't need to know your Cpanel from your elbow to get into this business. Really. Just focus on the things that you want to get from your business and let others take care of the back end. We've got people who are great at doing that. They live and breathe that every day, and they'll take care of it, and you don't have to worry about that. Just make the decision to go with Float and let us take care of the heavy lifting. Really, you can focus on the things that you do best.

ANDREW

Yes. Awesome. All right, Andrew. Well, this has been fantastic. I really love the five different areas that you spoke about, starting with something so simple, which may seem trivial, having a clean and tidy workspace, thinking about the long term of your business, and making sure you're getting some of that strategic planning done upfront, putting processes and SOPs, standard operating procedures, in place, and knowing really what you need from a supplier. I think these are five things that anyone listening to this can relate to and apply to their own business.

The devil is in the details. You need to know the things that are important, and I think a lot of the ideas that we've shared here will help them identify what those things are. Any final thoughts or things that you wanted to hammer home here?

ANDREW

Yeah, just one thing. I guess the thing that I would say that you touched on earlier is that I grew up in this personal community as well, this 150,000+ group, is that I applied the same principles that we grew, I guess, to almost a billion-dollar cap market, cap business to that. And that was just me, and I had a VA helping me. That's the power of these things. It doesn't matter whether you're talking on a big scale or small scale, they work and they work well, and they're transferable to any environment.

AIDAN

All right, guys, there you have it. This is Episode Number 38 of The Growth Booth. You can check it out by going to thegrowthbooth.com, navigate to Episode Number 38. I would absolutely recommend you go and check out Float Hosting. If you're not a Float Hosting customer, then you're missing out. And we've got a pretty special deal for listeners of The Growth Booth, which you can find out by going to TheGrowthBooth.com/float, and we will make sure you are looked after. If you need to transition any website over to us or anything like that, then, of course, we'll be able to help you with that and anything else that you need.

If you want to reach out to me or Andrew or any of our amazing team, you'll be welcome to do that as a Float Hosting customer.

Andrew, once again, thank you so much for being here. I really enjoyed this conversation here today, and hopefully, we can get you back on at some stage in the future.

ANDREW

 My pleasure. It's fun.

AIDAN

Thank you very much. Thanks, guys. We'll see you in the next episode of The Growth Booth.