Facebook Ads vs YouTube Ads: What's Better in 2023? | The Growth Booth #56

Aidan

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to episode number 56 of The Growth Booth, where today I want to discuss traffic, specifically YouTube and Facebook traffic. And there's no one that I know that knows this better than Kevin Randle, who is here with me today. Kevin, thank you so much for taking some time out to be here.

Kevin Randle

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Aidan

Kevin has been working with us in our business for a while now, and he has spent millions on ads, on Facebook, YouTube, Google, TikTok, Instagram, and Pinterest. I'm sure there are other things that I'm forgetting there, but basically, if there's a way that you can spend money and empty my wallet online, Kevin has found out what it is and has been doing it, but he's really good at it. In fact, he's done over $150,000 in ad spend in a single week, which might sound terrifying, but when he's been able to triple or quadruple the return on that, it's pretty amazing. He's an absolute wizard when it comes to not just running ads, but designing campaigns.

And so that's why I'm clearly quite excited to have him here. But before we dive into all the good stuff and start picking your brain a little bit there, I'd love to hear how you ended up in this kind of unusual world of running ad campaigns and driving traffic to websites? What's your background? What's your story here?

Kevin Randle

Yeah, so it's kind of a funny story, actually. Out of college, I took sales jobs and I ended up, one of the jobs I was working at was doing digital marketing sales for car dealerships. You try to sell people that work at car dealerships on anything and they know all the tactics, they'll call it out, like, “Yeah, you're using this strategy, I know what you're doing, it's not going to work on me.” So I end up having very data-oriented conversations and being like, “Look, you can't really argue with the numbers.” And in doing that, I kind of noticed that I had a little bit of a knack for digging into things and finding good talking points and areas of opportunity. I decided at that point to pivot to a job that was more data-centric. And that's kind of how I got into media buying. That was probably about eight years ago or so.

Aidan

And I should mention here that, Kevin, you have actually got a website for precise buying, and I think you say “It's where data meets science.” That's sort of what you talk about with your strategy or your idea there, right? Where advertising meets a scientific approach is what it was.

Kevin Randle.

Right, yes. And one of the first jobs I had was at a company that really liked to A/B test a lot on the website. Like, we would have weekly meetings where they go in and look at the smallest variables like button color or like loading bar time and stuff like that, and they would always test against the control. And taking that combined with digging into data, I was like, that's a really good methodology for finding new things that will work, trying new tactics, testing the viability of them, and also doing so in a way that is tried and true because obviously, scientists have a pretty thorough method. So it was an “Aha!” moment for me where I was like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and it's definitely applicable to this space specifically.

Aidan

So I come from an engineering background and I'm very much all about the numbers and the data and the science and testing and this whole thing about it being a numbers game. And I'm going to share a little secret with our listeners here. This is something that you might not be aware of, but when we are creating an ad, we might create in fact, I've just been filming a whole bunch of ads that we've been working on with Kevin here today, the way that we oftentimes approach it, if it's a video ad, for example, we might have ten different headlines leading to the ad and they are the first five or 10 seconds of an ad. But then we might have three or four different body sections of an ad and that's the middle section. That's like the core message. And then we might have three or four sorts of outro sections or closing sections of an ad. And the same method applies whether it's a video or text or whatever it is, we have these different sections.

Now, when we're creating these ads, we create all these different parts. And what it allows us to do is match them all up and make all of these different permutations. So if you've got ten different intros, four different body closes, and three different outros, I don't even know how that would all multiply together, but it's probably going to give us something like 50 different ads that we can test and it's something that we can knock out in a very short space of time.

Talking about that data approach, it's not like you're going to find that magic ad, be it a written ad or a video straight out of the gate. It may be that you test a whole bunch of them, but when you've got all of these combinations, it's a little bit like a brute-force method to cracking the code for marketing. So I thought I'd share that little insight because that's how we've been doing it for a while and Kevin has been designing a lot of those. so.

Kevin Randle

Yeah, it's interesting. Sorry to cut you off.

Aidan

No, go ahead.

Kevin Randle

I was going to say that it's really interesting because I do find myself especially early on media buying. You get emotionally attached to some of the ads. Like if you wrote it or if you just like the way it feels and you really want that one to succeed. It's kind of similar to having, like, a fantasy football team. You like certain players, but at the end of the day, if they're not doing well, you kind of have to take a very data-centric approach and just be willing to make those unemotional decisions and be like, hey, if it's not working, it's not working. So it's fun to find those winning combinations, in my opinion.

Aidan

And it really is like cracking a code, like picking a lock, kind of a thing where you're trying things out. I mean, we know how to stack the odds of success in our favor. We know what works. There are things that you can learn. It's a science, after all, but there's still an element of chance there. And what always surprises me, Kevin, is we might come up with what we think is the perfect ad script, and we might film the perfect video or write the absolute perfect ad, but then it's the one that we think is kind of horrible, kind of a throwaway that ends up being the winner, and it's just like, how did that happen?

So sometimes you just have to test things out. In fact, I would say normally you just have to test things out. And that's always been an approach that's worked for me. Go into any kind of paid advertising that you're doing, thinking, “Look, I'm going to have to test ten or 15 or 20 times here and it might cost me X amount per test, but as long as I keep going, I'm going to eventually crack the code or get closer to it.”

Kevin Randle

Yeah, absolutely. That's a nail on the head.

Aidan

So, look, if we're talking about Facebook and YouTube, which is what I thought would make for a good topic here today when you're thinking about running ads, do you use these ad platforms the same way? Does every single ad that you run on Facebook also run on YouTube? Or how do you decide what to run where, when you're thinking about these ad platforms?

Kevin Randle

Sure, so we talked a lot about data, but there's also an aspect of knowing who the potential person seeing the ad is going to be. And on Facebook, for instance, I generally view Facebook to back up. I don't use the same ads on Facebook and YouTube all the time. I really like using static images on Facebook. Videos work well there too, but I just think that your general user on Facebook is going to have a little bit shorter attention span. They want to kind of be able to digest what they're looking for and the means that work best for them. So I find that static images have that rich imagery. They've got the copy if they're looking for more of a linguistic approach to finding out what they're looking to learn. Whereas on YouTube, the user is already on the platform to watch videos. Like they've sat down to basically intake content in that format.

So with YouTube, you can definitely play around a little bit more in terms of having that more involved, especially if you have a good speaker like yourself Aidan, that someone can kind of really well articulate exactly what they're trying to get across and catch someone in the first 10 seconds on YouTube and then kind of lead them through basically a story about what they'll learn or what they'll get out of a product or something like that. I think that there are different ways to approach each platform, but at the same time, there are ads that you can 100% use on both platforms. So it's a good question.

Aidan

I think it's always useful to come back to think, how do people actually use these platforms? And with Facebook, you're browsing through your newsfeed and you get interrupted by an ad from some company and narrator. It doesn't these days. I mean, you can't scroll more than a couple of updates on your newsfeed without seeing an ad. That's just the way that Facebook and some of these other social media platforms are. And I think because of that, people that are running ads have got a millisecond or a fraction of a second, literally, to be able to grab your attention. And I think that's why images work so well. Whereas with YouTube, although a lot of times people are not necessarily searching to find something, they are still oftentimes selecting what they want to watch or being served up a similar video to one that they've watched before based on YouTube's algorithm.

So it's a much more, what's the word for it? It’s sort of like the viewer of YouTube is more aligned with what they're watching. They want to see it. Whereas with Facebook, it's sort of more like a sledgehammer where you have to really hit something hard to get someone's attention.

Kevin Randle

Yeah, pattern interrupt. It's a commonly used phrase, but it really is so important on Facebook. I like to use the term ad blindness as well. If you have an ad that looks very much like an ad, users have grown wise to that and they will like subconsciously, they'll just blow past it in their feed. And so if you have an ad for a product, you want it to look nice, but you don't want it to look overly professional to the point where it's just going to trigger that subconscious. Like, “This is an ad.” Finding that weird middle ground where you get your message across, but it looks in a way that stops someone for a second. Like you said, sledgehammer. So it's really cool.

Aidan

With Facebook, I find one of the things that work best is definitely when there's a personal brand involved as a personal story. Some of the best ads that we've run have been around personal stories that might be around things that I've done with my family. And this is not just tied to the online education space that we're in, but in any space. So obviously we've got software tools and stuff as well. And I find that it's really hard to beat a person in an ad. And you've probably heard the jokes about cat pictures on Facebook and baby pictures on Facebook. People actually look at these things and they want to see them. They click on them and it captures their attention because it's cute or something. I think there's a lot to be said to a human looking at you and telling you something or conveying a message versus some kind of machine or photo of an object which doesn't have emotions and feelings.

Could you just quickly share the types of ads people can actually run on YouTube, and also the types of ads that people can run on Facebook? So Facebook, if we start there, obviously you've got retargeting that's one type of ad. And then the way that you run retargeting ads could be multiple different ways. Maybe you could give a little bit of an overview, like the level one overview for Facebook.

Kevin Randle

Sure, yeah. So for Facebook specifically, you can run basically broad ads and cast a white net. You can run detailed targeting ads. There's a plethora of interest. There used to be even more. Last few years, they've kind of rolled some of them back just because, for whatever reason, they found them to be predatory or discriminatory. But the interests are also very broad. So you can run to individual interests, which will have an audience size of like 5 million to 200 million, or you can run like interest groupings, which will have bigger audiences, but those are kind of very much aligned with broad in their size. And when I say broad, I mean just wide open. I don't target anything other than geolocation and age. And then you get more granular. You can run lookalikes, which I'm a huge fan of. When I learned about them early on in my media buying career, I was like, “This is amazing. I can run to audiences that are based on what I'm feeding the algorithm.” And so, yeah, I've loved lookalikes for a long time.

Aidan

To jump in there for a second, to really make sure people understand what lookalike audiences are. Let's say you've got an e-commerce store or any kind of website and someone has come from you and they've purchased from you, and maybe you've accumulated 1000 purchases, you can then take that list of 1000 people and you can then use that to create similar groups of people which might number in the hundreds of thousands.

Kevin Randle

Yes, exactly, and it is more or less like what it sounds like. It's a group of people. I might use the phrase audience buckets during this. And you can tell Facebook how specific you want it to be to that audience that you've uploaded, because obviously, whether you like it or not, Facebook has a lot of data on you. So when you upload a list like that, it knows the people that are like you. And you can say, “I want people that are very much like me,” which would be like 1%, or “I want people that are more loosely like me, or loosely like my customer base,” and that'll be like 10%. And then it goes into testing too. I really liked when I do lookalikes, I have a 1%, a 3%, a 5%, and a 10%, just to kind of make sure that I'm giving Facebook enough autonomy to kind of go out there and find the users that might convert with what I'm trying to get them to look at.

Aidan

And then in terms of what you can turn into an ad or the types of ads you can specifically run, we've spoken about the video, we've spoken about static images. Is there anything else that springs to mind that we could share with folks here?

Kevin Randle

Yeah, and I think you touched on it a couple of minutes ago when you were talking about having a person. People go on Facebook to see pictures of babies and cats. It's become even more than recently, especially with the arrival of TikTok people love. We call it UGC, user-generated content. And so a lot of brands are resorting to this, especially in the e-commerce space. You'll see a lot with food delivery, like prepped food, but obviously, you pay for it, but you'll go to basically actors to say, “Hey, I just received this box of food and it's amazing. I love it. It's got all my keto stuff like that,” and it is very much an ad, but it's positioned in such a way that people take it as more of like a testimonial from someone who's actually tried that product. UGC is big. Actually, when I first started, I was doing a financial offer for something that happened in the UK. I won't get too much into the weeds, but again, it was an offer where people could submit their information to get money back from a bank because of some inappropriately written-in insurance, whatever. And I tried going the traditional route with ads that were informative, you can get money back. But then what I found worked best is I just went on Fiverr and paid $5 to a bunch of aspiring models or people looking for side gigs, and they sent in pictures, and we basically use those pictures. And it did so well, even though it was not related to what we were offering at all.

It was basically just like a picture of someone being like, holding up a piece of paper and you could photoshop on it. They're like, “Hey, I got money back to the bank through going through this,” and it's really been that way for as long as I've been buying, where the more you can make it look like it's a person, the more it will resonate with people. Yeah.

Aidan

You know what's getting really scary is these deep fakes where you can make someone look like someone else, you can make someone sound like someone else, and it's like, wow, where is this technology headed? I mean, I've got a New Zealand accent, but I could be speaking like Barack Obama if I wanted to. It's amazing, the technology, and it's scary at the same time. And this artificial intelligence where robots can start to look like humans, it's pretty mind-blowing to think about where that's headed. But let's go into YouTube now, what type of ads do you like to run on YouTube?

Kevin Randle

Yeah, so to keep it in the same vein, it's very much people-focused. You want to have someone who can articulate a good story, and especially, you know, it doesn't matter what the product is. You really need a good front person to kind of correctly articulate what you're trying to get across, and you really want to try to avoid splicing a lot of stock video footage in there. The more you have stock video footage, the more, again, it goes back to the ad blindness thing. But on the other hand, if you can have someone who's just narrating talking to the camera and then you slice in every, like, once in a while, a quick bit of video footage just to make sure that it's not just completely focused on that person, that works really well.

And then in terms of targeting, I wouldn't say the YouTube targeting on Google is as extensive as it is on Facebook, but you can definitely do a lot of cool things. Google obviously also has a good amount of information that they're feeding into their algorithm. But, yeah, you can do the same kind of things on YouTube that you can do on Facebook. In terms of retargeting ads, there are what they like to call consumer intense targeting and then affinity audiences, just kind of loosely based. It goes back to the same thing as interests and lookalikes and then left so much broad on YouTube. You do generally want to have targeting until you at least have a plethora of data that you fed into the Google Pixel or tag about what you're looking for.

Aidan

And how do you pay for YouTube ads? Now, it may sound like a silly question, but we see these ads where they almost encourage people to stop watching in the first few seconds, where they're like “If you don't think this is for you, just stop watching,” and then they pause, and then a few seconds later they say, “Oh, you're still here. Great,” and they continue. What's the deal with that?

Kevin Randle

Yeah, so early on YouTube, you used to not pay for ads if someone skipped in the first, I think it was like three to 5 seconds, but that's not the case anymore. You pay for every impression every time someone sees your ad. Essentially, you're paying for that. You can change the model to have it be strictly based on your pay for clicks, but ultimately it ends up being the same thing. Whether you're paying for impressions or clicks, every time someone views your ad, it's going towards a CPM cost, and that CPM cost or that cost, or if you're paying for clicks, that cost per click, it's still going to generally run up at the same amount of time. So knowing that you're paying basically to be in front of people and the more effectively you can get people to your ads to resonate with those.

Aidan

Any idea why people still run those ads then, where they are almost encouraging people to stop watching? Do you think it's sort of like a psychological play where you're saying, this might not be for you, and they think, “Oh, hang on a minute, I actually do want to hear about that. Don't keep it back from me”? I think there's psychology going in there. What's the deal with that?

Kevin Randle

For sure. I think it's definitely reverse psychology. You're telling someone like, “Hey, if you're not interested, see you,” where they're like, “All right, well, I guess I'll check this out then.” “If you don't need me, I'm interested.” It's a very old tactic.

Aidan

That's quite an effective strategy as well for dating and everything else. You never want to look like you're desperate to get that click or whatever it might be. So in terms of scaling this, the next thing I want to talk to you about now with Facebook and YouTube or Google, I think they're treated a little bit differently with how quickly you can start throwing money at a campaign. Could you talk about some of the differences there and just give people a bit more insight?

Kevin Randle

Yeah. So the key to scaling is I make a spreadsheet where I have the percentage I want to increase day by day. And at the beginning, I started very slowly. I start to like 1% to 2% of my total budget, and in the next three or four days, I'll maybe scale it up to like 3%, 4%, or 6%. And the reason I do it that way is a new offer. You definitely want to teach the algorithm who your user is and who's going to convert, and you want to do that without spending a lot of money. You also gain some initial learnings about targeting that will work and ads that will work in those phases. So as you start to more aggressively scale up, you have those initial learning pieces to kind of, “Hey, I can put my best foot forward using the things I learned in earlier stages,” and you'll definitely still have to test throughout that scale-up process. But yes, a lot of it is making sure that it's resonating with the audience. And not only is resonating with the audience good for you as an advertiser, but it's also good for Google to see that because Google or Facebook, ultimately want their users to have a good end experience. Well, they want advertising dollars. And the best way to keep people on the platform is through having good ads, through good advertising experiences for the users. And it's kind of like the ecosystem of ads where if the user is happy and they're not just completely turned off with the ads, they're going to stay on the platform, it's going to be more money for the advertising platform and the advertisers are going to more effectively be able to reach those users and either sell them.

Aidan

What about these advertisement platforms? Throttling the amount that they allow you actually to spend. So let's say you've got a brand-new YouTube account, YouTube ad account, Google ad account, or you and you've got a brand-new Facebook ad account. How are Facebook and Google or YouTube going to treat you differently in that regard to throttling?

Kevin Randle

Yeah, so Facebook used to be a lot easier. A lot of things happened in the last five years. But now with Facebook, they do want to make sure that you're not just going to break their rules and follow things that aren't policy-recommended. So they do start all new accounts at a base or a maximum of $50 a day advertising. And you can't really get above that until you've spent a few weeks following their best practices, not breaking any of their policies. They want to make sure that people aren't building a bunch of ad accounts so they can run what wouldn't be good-quality ads or ads that are not allowed on the platform. Just thinking like, “Okay, well, Facebook is going to shut me down, but if Facebook shuts me down, I have these other ad accounts.” So this way it kind of makes sure that people are doing their best policies.

And with Google or YouTube, they don't throttle you so much. But there is definitely a learning curve for the algorithm. You won't see the best performance in the initial days because for all intents and purposes, Google has to figure out who you're trying to advertise to and who's going to convert with your ads so they don't throttle you so much. But it is a best practice of mine to throttle me to make sure that I'm not just trying to spend thousands of dollars on day one because I know that Google doesn't really know at that point. And as well as I target, as well as I can target, it's still not going to really know the exact right people to send those ads to. So it makes sense to kind of teach the algorithm. I'm a big proponent of teaching the algorithm I'm looking for, and in doing so, you're able to scale up.

Aidan

Yeah, it's also thinking about it more like a marathon than a sprint. Or think about the tortoise and the hare, where the hare shoots off and just burns out in the first few days because they've spent more money and haven't made enough money back. Or Facebook thinks they're up for something shady and shuts down the account entirely, whereas the tortoise just keeps accumulating, accumulating, maybe putting up some pace and eventually getting to the point where it's making a lot of money.

One of the other things that I've seen happen to people a lot when they try to go too fast, they try to force something to happen, is they end up with an account ban. And it's a shame when that happens, but it's almost part of the course at some point. I mean, anyone who's been advertising a long enough amount of time would have come into this unfortunate territory of getting a suspension or a ban, and in many cases, it's through no fault of their own. Now, what a lot of our listeners here are involved with when it comes to paid ads are either running ads to affiliate offers like CPA offers, and we do a lot of that with Google and Microsoft, or running to e-commerce websites, and we also do that with Google and Microsoft and also Facebook and other platforms as well.

And the good news about that is these are perfectly legitimate places to run traffic to. People tend to get into issues when they just clearly break the rules like they're running paid ads for explosives or something, something that is not allowed on the marketplace, something that you're not allowed to run traffic to. What has been your experience with seeing accounts getting banned and opening up new accounts and all of that?

Kevin Randle

Sure, so it's definitely changed over time. But yeah, so as a general rule, I try to be as above board as possible. When I was starting out, I definitely had some accounts that got restricted or banned, and it wasn't necessarily because I was doing anything wrong, it's just that they will sometimes have a moderation system that will see something that they take out of context and they think that you're not following policy. And when that happens, it's a very difficult process to get in touch with someone at Facebook who can actually read into the context and say, “Hey, this person was following policy.” It's unfortunate, but yeah, if you get an account restricted or abandoned, even if you feel like you're following policy, your best method to get it back is really just a lot of effort and a lot of prayers.

Not a particularly religious person, but yeah, it's incredible. There's no real rhyme or reason as to why it happens sometimes, but yeah, so I take the extra effort to make sure that everything is super above board. [If an ad that I put out there gets basically they'll tell you a bunch of ads.] They'll tell you ads are not meeting their policy and you can request a review. And if I'll do that and request a review and if they still say it's not good, I will go in and I'll modify the ad and I'll do those steps. And if after a couple of modifications, they still tell me, “Hey, we don't like this ad,” I will just delete it from the account. It's better to delete the account and potentially even lose some data than have just non-excepted ads on the platforms because it will lead to being banned, and I don't think Facebook uses it in the way that you want.

Aidan

Yeah, exactly. A lot of it I think comes back to just understanding the terms and what you're allowed to do and what you're not allowed to do. It doesn't take that long to read through the advertising terms for each of these platforms and then you'll know what you can and can't do. And sometimes it's simple things that you need to have on your website like maybe you need to have an address on there, maybe you need to have contact information on there. Really simple things that if you don't have, you could potentially land in hot water with in particular Facebook, but even Google as well.

Now, before we wrap up here, I'm really keen to get your thoughts on the viability of Facebook and YouTube for two different business models. And those business models are the ones I just mentioned, e-commerce, so specifically dropshipping products from USA suppliers from our own websites, and the other model is affiliate marketing, but a very specific subset of that is CPA marketing, essentially where we are getting paid for leads and we don't use a lot of YouTube or Facebook for either of these models.

So I would love to get your take on this and how you see Facebook and YouTube playing with e-commerce and affiliate marketing in 2023. Maybe dive into e-commerce first there, selling physical products on your own website, and then we can talk about the affiliate side of it.

Kevin Randle

Yeah, sure. So with e-commerce, I definitely think that there's more of an audience to be had on Facebook. I think that generally people at this point too if they see a product they like, they're going to buy it and they more than likely have already bought a product on Facebook or Instagram. So buying another one is not like they don't feel like they're giving any more information away or anything like that. They just see a product they like and they've decided to buy it. It works really well on Facebook and Instagram to have those e-commerce sites. And you'll see tons of e-commerce sites around the end of the year, specifically around Black Friday up till Christmas, but you'll also see them running the rest of the year. I think that eCommerce has definitely found a good niche on Facebook. Again, this evolving with those user-generated content videos that we talked about earlier.

On YouTube, I would say that e-commerce is a little trickier. People definitely buy products on YouTube. I don't think that they're as likely to be on YouTube because again, it goes back to why they are on that platform on Facebook. They're just aimlessly scrolling on Google or YouTube. They're using it as a search engine. It is the second biggest search engine in the world, so they're on there to find information about something that they may not necessarily have that buyer's intent that you’ll find on Facebook.

Aidan

Just one other thought about YouTube and physical products on YouTube. I think you can identify someone who is researching, and the research process for example - recently I purchased a teleprompter, but before I purchased it I was looking on YouTube to find out how these things work and that was actually how I identified the product when I ultimately went on to sell. So in that kind of situation, I think there’s a huge gain to be had with advertising physical products on YouTube and there are a lot of different ways that you can sort of leverage that.

So, finally, to wrap up  - your thoughts on affiliate marketing and YouTube and Facebook as places to drive traffic?

Kevin Randle

Yeah. And just to kind of go back to your previous point, you can 100% have a lot of success on YouTube as an e-commerce advertiser. And like you said, a demonstration or a product tutorial works really well. Recently I started taking the approach where these all build like one big picture for a potential consumer. You may not always see the last click come from YouTube, but as you said, if they're researching a product and they're learning about it and seeing the ads for it, it pops up on Facebook. It's a matter of, “Hey, if my blended cost per acquisition is where I want it to be, and then I cut back spending on a certain platform because I'm seeing more last clicks come from Facebook.”

You might also see your total amount of revenue drop as well. And it won't become more efficient like you think it will because it all paints this big blended picture. You're reaching people at different points in their buying process and YouTube is really important for that. They can see it.

Sorry, I want to go back to that quickly. And then to jump into the affiliate stuff, you can do that anywhere. I mean, that's how I got started into media buying, was through affiliate stuff. I mentioned a little bit about it earlier, but people are always looking for information if you appeal to them. What I think is so great about affiliate marketing and lead acquisition is that it's very easy for people to submit a little bit of information about themselves to get more information about something they're looking for in return.

It doesn't matter what platform they're on, if they're on Facebook, if they're on YouTube, if they're on TikTok, it's not something that's going to create a big-time commitment for them. You just have to make sure the time that they've already spent looking into your product is as valuable to them as possible. And the more that they're intrigued and the more that they kind of want that more information, the more likely you are to convert them. And again, I just want to emphasize, I don't think that is different on platforms. People are ultimately always soaking up information like sponges, and if they’re on Facebook or if they’re on YouTube or if you know they’re on Pinterest, like if you get the right information, it’s a very easy ask for them to just put in a little bit of information about themselves.

Aidan

That’s awesome. Now, we’ve covered a lot in this. It’s been an absolute treasure trove of insights for people. Thank you for that. Just before we wrap up, 30 seconds on TikTok, Pinterest – are you optimistic about the direction these platforms are going in terms of advertising in 2023?

Kevin Randle

Yeah. So TikTok is crazy. It has an amazing amount of growth. People are on the platform of all ages. It used to just be like a younger demographic, but older people are getting involved in it. People are finding a lot of success in a lot of different spaces, TikTok definitely. Pinterest is more, the people that work at Pinterest will tell you this, it is more of like a display search engine. This goes back to what I was talking about earlier, where all these different platforms reach people at different points in their buying or their acquisition journey. So having them there, and I don't think you'll find a lot on Pinterest in terms of the actual conversion, but again, it goes back to people who love to get ideas for things they are interested in, on Pinterest. Again, it's a search engine, so they all build upon this picture that you're trying to paint for the user to get them to convert.

Aidan

So, like I said we’ve covered so much good information, it’s been an absolute treasure trove, and I really look forward to having you back here in the future where we can dive into some more of these topics.

Kevin Randle

Awesome. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. On a serious note, I appreciate it. And yeah, I hope I answered things okay for what we're trying to do.

Aidan

So, thanks again. If you‘re listening to this, you head over to thegrowthbooth.com. This is episode number 56, so head over to thegrowthbooth.com and navigate to episode number 56 where you can get the show notes and to be able to see the video version of this as well along with different bits and pieces of different links that we’ve mentioned in the show.

That’s a wrap for this episode and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of The Growth Booth.